Saturday, March 7, 2009

Dear Mr Z

Dear Mr Z,

I don't really know what to say anymore. I've gone from being over the moon to being so down and I don't like it. I'm somewhat concerned that I say will say something really rude and insensitive to you, yet part of me just doesn't give a shit. I tried to be honest with you. I tried to tell you what my life is about right now, and what things i'm going through and what I could and couldn't give to you. Your friends and family had some concerns about me. Why would you want to get involved with a young, Jewish religious, closeted, foreigner who didn't have the ability to stay in the US long term? And I couldn't argue with that. You'd had an ex who moved into your place and lived with your siblings while you were living in California. Just till 'he got back on his feet'. These concerns were quite valid. I just wish I had someone warn me about getting involved with you. Actually I did. I did see a comment or 2 on my blog from readers warning me about getting too attached to you. And I ignored them. Clearly I shouldn't have. I had been hurt before, by a guy I was totally into, but I had no chance with him. This was different. We were dating. You were into me, I convinced myself. Were you?

Since our first meeting we had been in touch. You had told me you were free on Monday to meet again. I was so excited. I texted you on Sunday but no response. I texted you again later that day, again nothing. I called. I left a voicemail or 2. Nothing. I texted you the following morning, again nothing. I wondered if I should just give up on you. I even asked my facebook friends via my status. 'Jay wonders how many times he should call and text a guy before giving up?' it said. Responses ranged from 1 call and 1 text, to 1 call and 2 texts, to 'if he hasn't called by now move on, he's just not that into you'. But i didn't give up. I texted you one more time later that morning and finally got a response. I was relieved and put the whole doubt thing out of my mind.

We had a great time hanging out. We went on a date Wednesday night. Decided on a movie - Defiance. Clearly not a great move communication wise, but it was nice. I held your hand throughout the movie. And I didn't care who would see us. I was happy. We went back to your place, had something to eat, a drink and went to bed. Yeah thats right. Went to bed. All I wanted to do was lie next to you, holding you.

Yesterday I messaged you, I was out with some friends but I had something i needed to tell you and i'd call you later that night. I got an affirmative response. I messaged you when I got back but i didn't get a response. I figured you were asleep already. This morning I messaged you, but still no response. Nor did i get a reply to the one i sent later, nor to the calls nor the voicemail. Not a peep from you. I went out without my phone tonight. Having been gone 6 hours I figured there must be something from you when I return. A missed call, a voicemail, a text. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I know there are some issues we have. The whole closeted thing is one. The dating girls is another. But you seemed to be interested in learning about me, at least you said you were. Did you really spent time googling Judaism and on wikipedia? Really it was these things I wanted to talk to you about. I had been set up with a girl, and a date had been scheduled. These 'dates' were something that we had discussed somewhat. They weren't real dates. I pick the girl up, we go to a bar have a couple drinks, talk, be totally bored out of my mind, drop the girl back home. Finito. You knew that they meant nothing to me. I was dating you, and you meant so much to me. I didn't see this upcoming date as an issue, but you had every right to know it was happening. That's what I wanted to tell you.

I had been thinking about cutting down on blogging, or at least writing less. It's one thing to tell the whole world about my private life, but it's another when someone else is involved. Your private life was yours and I had no right to share that with the world.

Being closeted was another thing. I had originally planned out how things were going to work. I'd find a job (yeah right with this economy) and get a visa allowing me to stay in the US. Knowing that I could stay here and not be forced to go back home meant I thought i'd be comfortable enough to come out to my family. Knowing I wouldn't have to face them. But now things were different. I was seeing you, and this would quite likely force the issue to come to hand. I was thinking about who i'd tell, who wouldn't totally freak out when they heard. I picked a friend who'd be the first i'd tell.

My life was going to change in so many ways all because I met you. Now i don't know what it was i saw in you. Really how hard is it to reply to a text or make a call? Obviously I'm just not worth it.

That's it. I think. I'm not going to read through it and fix it all up, and it may be a bit jumpy as I move from one topic to another. I probably said some insensitive things, maybe even worse things. But right now I don't give a shit. In fact, i'm quite pissed off. Goodbye.


Anonymous said...

Jay... you need to chill out. You will get your heart broken many many times. What are you really looking for right now? We all know you don't have the capacity to be in any healthy kind of "relationship". So why not just enjoy getting to know people and just keep it light. Its unfair to attempt anything more- both to you and the lucky guys who meet you.

Jay said...

Yeah i know, lots of broken hearts. What am I looking for right now? I don't know but we were both interested in seeing where it would go. Initially I didn't expect anything, but there was a connection there, at least I thought there was. Obviously I don't have as much experience with this kind of thing as most people out there, but really all I wanted was some courtesy, and a little respect from the guy I thought I was dating. Is that too much to ask?


Anonymous said...

I don't want to be harsh... but yeah... it is too much to ask. Anyone who would date you, and know that you are also dating women, really doesn't have their own shit together. Of course, this is just a blog...but I think you would be best finding a guy in your similar situation and become friends, commiserate... and figure out how to deal with your sexuality. Just sayin'

Anonymous said...

g'morning sunshine,

i don't know what 2say...sharing with you -iève been in a simmilar situation 10 yrs ago perhaps won't be of any condolence to you...try to 'accept' it as a life lesson like a chapter one of the many in your life...
i doubt it'll be more comforting to you, if a say, that one's personal life's path is a journey.

it probably doesn't make any sence to you right now, but eventually will:...a week from now...a month...a year....even 10 yrs from now.
remember: you special!!!

Kelly said...

I hate to say this, but you need to make some decisions yourself. If you want a person to be more than a friend, you have to ditch seeing women. If you want anyone to respect you, you have to respect yourself. Though being open and honest with the guy, as Anonymous said, he must have some serious issues if he was "ok" with you dating women... though it has been a while since I was in the dating scene, I still would not have given an effort to be with someone who was still seeing women... Being in the closet I understand to a certain extent, but spending the time, money and effort of going out with someone who I know I have no chance of having a relationship with... seems pointless... ditch the women... focus on yourself...

Heblish said...

wait - so you're upset that a guy you hooked up repeatedly, and meanwhile started to form a relationship with - has reservations about dating a guy who will only come out if he gets a job in the usa so he won't have to face his family ?

you're upset at him, because he won't communicate. you've spent probably several dozen hours with him, had sex before (?) a relationship, and given him many reasons for pause.

now, on the other hand, your family has devoted *decades* to you, has hopes and dreams (although they might not be your own) for you, has fed you, nourished you, and loved you -- and your *great escape* plan is to ... not communicate with them...

methinks you need to reevaluate some of your worldview, your understanding of sex/love, your hypocritical notion of communication, and your willingness to eschew your heritage.

It seems you've got on foot running faster than it ought to be towards a whole new life, and the other is lame, trailing behind, holding you back.

i'd suggest working on getting them to work together, walk together, calmly and confidently hoisting you forward into a centered, balanced, integrated existence.

(apologies from the harshness - got my cues from above.)

(also - are you sure Mr Z knew you were dating? It sounds to me like you were going on dates which ended in bed, not actually "dating")

tkob said...

I agree with all that has been said above. I have been reading for a while and been wondering when this would happen. It was bound to. Having sex with a guy is NOT a relationship. In fact, having sex with someone on the first 'date' usually never leads to a 'relationship' (the same applies to women) it's not how relationships work. Dating does not always mean sex. I speak form experience. I have been where you are now. I didn't come out till I was in my late 40's. In my experience sex on the first date is just that - sex. It almost always leads nowhere.

It pains me that your heart is broken. I always advise guys that you need to be together for at least 3 months before you can call it a relationship or a BF.

I wrote you a while back that you won't have to give up your beliefs for the right guy. That includes eating out of Traif cooking utensils/plates/stove and writing blog entries on Shabbos. It really hurts me to see you throwing away Yiddishkeit for sex. I have worked hard for the last 10 years trying to help Frum Gay guys realize that you don't have to throw away your Judaism because you are Gay. There a plenty of Frum Gay people, yes people - men & women - out there that have found a balance in both worlds.
I believe that the gut reaction to 'leave the fold' is because of feeling that Judaism doesn't allow Homosexuality, when in truth it is only one specific act that Torah addresses, and Torah teaches "Ahavas Yisroel" loving a fellow Jew, just because he is Jewish. True, not every Rabbi or parent can understand having a Gay congregant/son but today most can handle it. There is even a new Chabad sponsored organization, Chutza, designed to reach out to GLBT Jews.
I agree totally with Heblish in that you have to reevaluate and consider what it is you want. It will be hard for a non-religious Jew, let alone a non-Jew, to understand how you are dating men and women at the same time.

I would like you to consider having a conversation with a Frum Gay person who has been in your situation and talking it out to see it from a diferent perspective.
If you want, I can suggest a few people to contact.

Meanwhile, try not to get depressed about someone not replying to you, if it is meant to be, it will happen, in the right time. That, I can promise.

David said...

While, from your text, I'm writing you after the fact, I think we need to talk.

savante said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
savante said...

Relationships never are easy. I think we've all been through a broken heart here and there. *hugs* Sounds like you need to have a long talk with Mr Z though.

Jay said...

Wow thats alot to respond to. I should say first that I spoke to Mr Z. We sorted things out, kind of. We definitely have a lot to discuss when we meet next. But i'm giving him some space and we will see what happens.

I think i first need to clarify what I mean by 'dating' women. It's not what you regular people think happens on a date. It's more of a meeting. I laugh at that, but thats what it is. You sit on opposite sides of the table and talk. No touching, no kissing, nothing. You just talk - about the girl, about her family. For me that's not a date. But it is what I have to go through every now and then. Yes it's pointless, but living in my world, at my age, that's what I have to do.

Heblish, it's not so much about only coming out so I won't have to face my family. I come from a place that has a small jewish community. I know someone who when rumors started that he was gay, was essentially shunned by many in the community, his family felt it, his kids (yeah kids) felt it. I know someone else who moved away to a town where there were no jews. Yeah it may sound crazy, but thats what it is, and i wouldn't be able to handle that. I know in New York i have a bunch of jewish gay friends. I think I could live here as an out gay jew, and thats something that i wouldn't be able to do back home. I do have family here too, so it's not about running away, but giving me the opportunity to live that life I want to live, without having secrets.

You know we're not at the relationship stage yet, but we certainly were dating. I knew it. He knews it. His latest facebook status said something like 'Mr Z is dating a sweet, smart, sexy man. And i like that'. It's something we had talked about and it certainly wasn't just a figment of my imagination. Yeah we've had sex, but not every date ended in sex. I just enjoy spending time with him, and he enjoys my company too.

My family will deal with it everything when the time is right, but now I need to do something for myself for once. I've always been there for them. I'm the one who always did what he was told. Helped grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. Whenever something needed to be done i was there.

tkob, I hear you loud and clear. We were dating, not just having sex. Where will it go? Who knows. I'm not throwing away anything for sex. Far from it. I've been heading in this direction for a long time, and I only recently met this guy.

And David, call me some time.

The only thing I have left to say is that a long discussion is called for... and i guess you'll hear from me soon enough


Heblish said...

jay - the difficulty in leaving criticism, no matter how constructively constructed, is that the recipient will usually become defensive, focusing on the technical errors, and unwilling to hear the general points of the comments.

i didn't leave a comment because i need you to explain or justify yourself - hell, you dont have to do that for yourself. the way we learn from mistakes is by considering them, what led us to them, and how we can prepare ourselves for them again in the future.

even though the details we gathered from your accounts don't necessarily align with the realities you present above, doesn't mean we don't offer points that you should seriously reflect on, rather than toss with the bathwater.

(also, for the record, i come from an orthodox family and know the charedi world quite intimately -- though it is not my world -- and so your struggles are not totally foreign to me)

finally, (really!), i'm curious about your paragraph about 'finally doing something for yourself' after being told what to do, like helping grandparents, cousins, etc. That might be a paragraph you'll want to tuck away and revisit every once in a while, to examine how your attitudes might change as you develop. i'm certainly curious to see if they do.

tkob said...

Tonight (Sunday night) was NOT something you should have missed. I think it would have shown you how some people deal with the same issues you are dealing with.
It was amazing to be in Chelsea's most famous Gay Bar celebrating Purim with a few hundred Gay Jewish guys, their friends and their Fairy Princeses, all different levels of Judaism, some with Yarmulkah's some without, some with beards - even an older guy dressed in full Hasidic garb with a Shtreimel no less - and me, dressed as a Farmer (I won 3rd prize in the costume contest), all talking, dancing, drinking, making out, shmoozing, meeting and greeting, music, blaring. People being who they are with no worries. Sure, there was the guy who thought he might be out of place, he didn't stay long. There was the guy who didn't like the large crowd, the guy who doesn't drink and plenty of others, but they were there all the same!
While dancing to the uptempo beat of some wild club music I had a small revelation. You see, when I was living in Florida and had just become single, I started going out to the clubs in Ft Lauderdale. Actually, I became somewhat of a club rat you might say. I went every week, sometimes two or three times a week. I knew everyone and everyone knew me - I had a blast.
Then I moved to New York. When I came here I literally had $50 to my name, so clubbing was NOT an option. Three months after I moved here I met my partner of almost 5 years. He doesn't like clubs, the noise, the crowds, etc. So we never go out to clubs. I am okay with that, I had my time.
But things have changed a lot in the last 5 years, he has become less shy, more open, easier around new people, so we have been talking about doing a club for a while, THEN, Purim at Splash came up!
Tonight while on the dance floor - yes, I dance like no one is watching - I realized that the reason I love it is because I can be free there. No one to judge me - well, there are always people looking at the old fat guy with the beard and wondering what the hell he is doing there - but for me, it's total freedom. Freedom to me me. To let my soul hear the beat of the music, become one with the dancing crowd and just let go.
If you could, I would advise you to change the title of the blog. You aren't (IMHO) living thru hell, you are living like everyone else is. Day by day. Yeah, it's hard not being out, having to hide, dating girls (platonic as it may be) to please the 'rents, but it will end, eventually, sooner than you think. You have got to live for YOU. Be thankful for what your family has given you, and will continue to give you, but be YOU.
I leave you with the words of Ultra Nate whose song resonates the wish I have for you tonight:

... continued in the next entry ...

tkob said...

... cont'd from prev blog entry ...

Where did we go wrong
Where did we lose our faith
My brother is in need
But can he depend on me
Do you think if one of you tried
Maybe you could find
A better friend than any other
If you gave more than you took
Life could be so good
Come on and try
Nows the time

cause youre free
To do what you want to do
Youve got to live your life
Do what you want to do

Do what you want
Do what you want to do

Are we all strangers
Does anyone really care
Deep down were all the same
Trying to hide our pain
You think you can never trust another
cause theyre all out to get ya
We have to live in this world together
If we open up our hearts
Love can finally start
Come on and try
Nows the time


Bridge when youre down and youre
Feeling bad
Everybody has left you sad
Feels like no one will pull you through
Its your life whatcha gonna do
Make that change lets start today
Get outta bed get on your way
Dont be scared your dreams right there
You want it reach for it
cause you're free
To do what you want to do
You've got to live your life
Do what you want to do

Jay, You can be free too...
Hope to see you at the JCC
Have a Happy Purim.
V'nahapoch Hu....!

Jay said...

Heblish, obviously no-one likes to be criticized. However since this has been posted, i've had discussions with a number of people since this was posted. And i think i've managed to explain myself better and they don't think i'm that nuts. Obviously when i posted this i was in a bit of a funk so i probably didn't make myself as clear as I couldve been.

That being said, i do consider all comments and we have worked things out. I also plan to start coming out to straight friends, and will eventually tell my family. I'm not going to rush into anything, but it will happen.

As for tkob, it was nice to meet you.